Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

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andypap
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Lid geworden op: ma apr 30, 2018 10:57 am

Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor andypap » ma apr 30, 2018 11:38 am

Hello, I would appreciate any of your commends in English, as I cannot speak Dutch.
This is not the ordinary problem with CDR's that one day stop reading recordable discs or TOC does not pass etc.

The unit was 100% operating (with it's limitations to regognize only Audio recordable discs of low speed - max 16X)

I just wanted to give it a refresh and replace some capacitors on the main board which is provided as compact with the mechanism.
I replaced some old, general use Nichicons with Sanyo Os con SP and Sanyo SEPC/ similar values -Voltage.

Dissaster!! When re assebled again, all mechanical functions still worked properly (read , playback, TOC, identify empty CDR's) ...but no music on the line output as also to the headphones, even at playback of ready burned cd discs, either from analog source. The VU also where not moving at playback, even that the track info and the counter on the screen were shown active, indicating signal upsence. I thought of missconection the PCB plags and dissasembled once again to check solder points of recup and anything other strange. It happens sometimes and almost always I find the end.
After focusing on the solder side of the board I noticed that I had not cut enough the feets of one replaced capacitor, and that damn thing had made holes to the protection sleeve downeeth to the solder PCB side, where it is mounted to the bottom chassis. Probably was shorted there, and I fixed the lenght , check every other point , check power supply , found oK with all voltages at appropriate values, reassembled and Woww.
Audio out came back both while playback of ready burned discs, as also by analog input at recording mode. TOC, as always passed, for new empty discs . The only problem now was that audio level was muted. For recorded or commercial CD's the VU could not reach more than top -30db level. This was exactly the same low level when tried in recording mode, while monitoring the analog input source (Input pot at max ). The VU readings were active and in accordance with the lower level at the headphones that I was hearing , as also to the drive capability of the line output to the next amplifier stage .
I then run the self diagnosis tool and after 1 minute flashing "busy" the screen said "passed" which is the normal.
I gave it one more dissasembling to clear the lens, to short all capacitors , both on the board and the power supply, measuring then 0V or a couple of mV on their legs .
Reassembled again to and tried the digital input source. Oughh. What a dissapointment..

Again passes TOC, reads everything and identifies CD recordable, but goes crazy with the functions now. The usual problem of muting signal level remains, but now appears additional serious operating dissruption (by flashing VU's , system stall and all those unbelievable issues)
Playback still is not a problem. Goes flawleslly (but max -30db level otuput). Functions at playback seem to be also proper by choosing next /previous tracks , play & stop orders. But when try at recording mode and after succesfully passes TOC , hit REC , VUs work , then freeze (like old windows "blue screen") time counter is stalling too, music keeps going audible from input source through headphones , but system is stalled. Tray does not open, stop button doesn't respond. Every function button is freeze. The only option is to Power off. When power on again the above repeat.
I tryed to run again the Self diagnosis , after 20 seconds flasing "busy" , now apears "errror "(??) Not the desired "passed" , neither the reasonable described in manual "service" . It seem to be a control PSU problem..
I would apreciate your advices. If still any.....

PS. Anybody has that hidden by Philips schematics diagream of main PCB and driver, it will be highly welcome.
regards
Andreas
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movieman
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Lid geworden op: ma mar 17, 2008 10:42 pm
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Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor movieman » ma apr 30, 2018 11:58 am

Did you take precautions against static electricity discharge? I hope you didn't kill the CPU because they are not available anymore. Shorts can do a lot of damage.

You should have the CDR repaired by een expert, bramjacobse (on this forum) for example.

andypap
Berichten: 6
Lid geworden op: ma apr 30, 2018 10:57 am

Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor andypap » ma apr 30, 2018 1:31 pm

Did you take precautions against static electricity discharge? I hope you didn't kill the CPU because they are not available anymore. Shorts can do a lot of damage.

You should have the CDR repaired by een expert, bramjacobse (on this forum) for example.

Thank you movieman.
I guess the CPU is that one only, 24 pins chip mounted on a base (not smd). I did pull it off to have access to a next capacitor and put it back in it's place right after the first dissasembling. Functions did not affected after that first atempt. By contrast the output "audio path" was partially recovered from no signal at all.

On the other hand there is not any schematic diagram regaring the main CDR 880/870 PCB, as Philips never publish it. In service manuals they consider the main PCB + drive as one and the same spare part code. There is only a general fow chart, describing the function areas and some basic chips.

In my case I guess I need a working main PCB to mount my drive mechanism on , which on the contrary seem to be more persistant and still pass TOC and reads burned CD's , even under these circumstances. Do you have any idea where to get access to defect parts. More oftenly the failure exists on the drive, so I might have a chance.
Cheers

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movieman
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Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor movieman » ma apr 30, 2018 2:23 pm

The service manual is available free of charge here.

I don't know about specific parts but some might still be in stock at ASWO.

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Remi
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Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor Remi » ma apr 30, 2018 4:24 pm

can you also check the soldering of the various voltage regulators? they might be loose or brickle, maybe one did come loose while replacing the caps
"Hoezo nu wel genoeg? D'r is toch nog plek!" jaja, waar dan? "Ha! d'r kan nog wat in de auto!"

mae
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Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor mae » ma apr 30, 2018 4:43 pm

Equally likely, some error was made during the process of repeatedly (why oh why) "achteruitrepareren" (repairing in reverse). It started with a short circuit of a capacitor against the casing and if i read correctly, after having recovered from that, the playback sound was muted. Probably some part (maybe in the local supply but could also be in the signal path, depending on where in circuit this capacitor was) has broken down causing that symptom.

Other things to check for are loose soldering on the newly mounted capacitors, wrong polarity on same or flakes or spatters of tin on the pcb. Also check for ripping or tearing of any flat cables or connectors that have come loose from the pcb.

Possibly someone might see something on good quality close up pictures (unfortunately the forum software discourages uploading nice & large pictures, you could host them externally if you don't feel like editing them).

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bramjacobse
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Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor bramjacobse » di mei 01, 2018 10:02 am

:think:

Servicemanual CDR870 can be used.. :| , not the mainboard.. :think:

More service manual CDR870

andypap
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Lid geworden op: ma apr 30, 2018 10:57 am

Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor andypap » di mei 01, 2018 6:19 pm

Hello and thank you all for your kind interest to give an advice.
Honesly I dont have the time to check each one of the flat wiring loops to check the continuity.
I would prefer a swap of the drive to a crapy board , cross fingering that all problem will disappear.
I dont know if any body is interested to make an attempt to fix it for me.

Pity , I thought that I had a good spare Yamaha CDR S1000 for back up, but when yesterday digged it out, I realised that it has also reading issues.... Gods are agains me to copy a few albums that I borrowed last week and I should give em back ... :(

With best regards
Andy

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movieman
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Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor movieman » di mei 01, 2018 6:26 pm

Why not use your PC to make some backups? Best programme for this is Exact Audio Copy (EAC), it's freeware.

andypap
Berichten: 6
Lid geworden op: ma apr 30, 2018 10:57 am

Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor andypap » di mei 01, 2018 6:42 pm

Why not use your PC to make some backups? Best programme for this is Exact Audio Copy (EAC), it's freeware.
I know. But I could download them from web sites and rip them through the PC if I needed just regular copies.
I want to make quality copies from original vilyl Lp's by using dedicated recorder for that job. AD in PC's and especially analog buffers and power lines are very noisy and are not suited for this job.

andypap
Berichten: 6
Lid geworden op: ma apr 30, 2018 10:57 am

Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor andypap » di mei 01, 2018 7:11 pm

Equally likely, some error was made during the process of repeatedly (why oh why) "achteruitrepareren" (repairing in reverse). It started with a short circuit of a capacitor against the casing and if i read correctly, after having recovered from that, the playback sound was muted. Probably some part (maybe in the local supply but could also be in the signal path, depending on where in circuit this capacitor was) has broken down causing that symptom.

Other things to check for are loose soldering on the newly mounted capacitors, wrong polarity on same or flakes or spatters of tin on the pcb. Also check for ripping or tearing of any flat cables or connectors that have come loose from the pcb.

Possibly someone might see something on good quality close up pictures (unfortunately the forum software discourages uploading nice & large pictures, you could host them externally if you don't feel like editing them).
I'll try to take a few pictures and post them.
The capacitor with the propable short is next to the DIGG chip and I;m not sure if is it a decoupling or reference voltage cap. That's why I needed the schematics of the main board which is not povided by Philips. There is always the hard way to download each chip data sheet and follow the paths to identify what leg is correspond to...But this seems to be Indianna Jones adventure.. :violin:

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Yde
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Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor Yde » di mei 01, 2018 7:14 pm

To record vinyl records to my PC i use a high quality soundcard (Creative SB Audigy RX) with a noise ratio (SNR) of 103db.
There is no noise or other disterbance present.

The soundquality is outstanding and is better than a stand alone cd recorder that i use (Sony CDR-W33).
All the recordings are in WAVE (RAW) files and can be eddited at a later time without quality loss.
The software i use is called "Samplitude Music Studio" by Magix, but you can also use freeware software.

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movieman
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Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor movieman » di mei 01, 2018 7:37 pm

The recording speed and the extraction-software are the biggest problems when you make a copy with your PC. Maximum should be 4x for a CDR. I do not believe that a PC makes worse backups than a stand-alone recorder. Yes the PSU produces high frequencies and yes this could cause jitter but stand-alones also have an SMPS. When you are going to use the onboard DAC/ADC that's indeed asking for trouble.

andypap
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Lid geworden op: ma apr 30, 2018 10:57 am

Re: Philips CDR 880 - Need advice to recover

Berichtdoor andypap » wo mei 02, 2018 9:47 am

Hi all, and thank you for your replies,
I'm wondering if possiblpe to bybass the DIGI-O chip , where from it's data sheet come out that includes somewhat of muting function, controled by (?), and to feed the produced by DA I2S signal directly to the sample rate converter CHIP, or even further to encoder CHIP. The idea is to bybass the muting from a faulty chip or disruption at protocol . What does fight this theory is that the problem appears even in the reverse signal direction. i.e. the already burned or commercial CD's when playback are also limited up to -30db , according to the VU readings. If it happens because again get through the "I2S path"and then to DIG I-O chip , probably it is explained and indicates the "area of mulfunction" The critical issue is at what function area the VU board is drived by.
I gave it a try yesterday and again imediately pass OPC, identify empty redordables and standing by at REC, with audible signal out which is obviously limited somewhere. I obtained at VU that when I fully turn max the input pot, the signal overdrive the limit of -30db by keeping the readings continoues max to -30db and does not floating according to the signal variances. When I lower a bit the pot the VU works according to the music with a top ceiling of -30dB. I hope to make sence

Cheers


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